David Craig

Kevin Daisey:

All right. We are live. What’s up, everybody? Welcome to another live recording of the Managing Partners Podcast. My name’s Kevin Daisey and I’ll be your host. Also, the founder of Array Digital, where we exist to help law firms grow through digital marketing. Today, I’ve got a guest coming in from Indianapolis, David Craig. Welcome to the show.

David Craig:

Thank you, Kevin. I appreciate the invitation to be on.

Kevin Daisey:

Absolutely. And so we have a fellow podcaster here on the show today, also runs a law firm. But we’ll get to some of those things he’s doing, really doing some cool stuff. So tune in to this episode, really pay attention, as we’ll learn from him what he’s doing and what’s worked well for them. But first, David, tell us about yourself all the way back. What made you decide to become an attorney?

David Craig:

I always loved helping people. I originally thought maybe politics would be a good way to do that. And once I got involved in politics, I realized that I probably am not going to be able to make the difference that I wanted to make.

Kevin Daisey:

Perhaps people won’t like you.

David Craig:

Yeah. Perhaps people won’t like you. Plus what I realized was, “Man, you had to be wealthy.” And when I was in college, I wasn’t. And you had to be independently wealthy to make a difference. And I didn’t like being beholden to people. And so I decided to go a different route. So I decided to go into the law and I can make a bigger difference to individuals as a personal injury lawyer, which is what I chose to do and what I’ve been doing now for over 35 years.

Kevin Daisey:

Excellent. When you first came out of school, did you go intern or work somewhere else? Did you go out on your own? What was that path like?

David Craig:

Yeah, so I started off working for other people learning. I wasn’t the best student. I knew when I couldn’t get the top grades, then I had to have another strategy. So I always worked all the way through law school. I went out and worked for some of the best trial lawyers, so I could get experience.

Kevin Daisey:

Excellent.

David Craig:

And I learned a ton that way. And I learned the parts that I liked and the parts I didn’t like. And that’s something I always recommend. I hire lots of law clerks here. Actually, almost all my lawyers here are all law clerks. My partner, Scott Faultless, he was a law clerk of mine for like 30 years ago. So I bring up law clerks, I give other people opportunities and I think that’s a good way to learn.

Kevin Daisey:

I think that’s great. And I just actually hear that up from a lot of other owners or managing partners when they started. I think it’s good on you too because if they don’t work out and stay at your firm, they at least decide for themselves, “This is not what I want to do.” And they might go into a different area of practice.

David Craig:

Yeah. It’s amazing how many non-personal injury lawyers I’ve groomed, because they come in here and then they go, “This isn’t for me. I need to go do something else.” And one of my law clerks is now on a judge. Some of them are CFOs, CEOs. The main thing about it is I like to watch people grow and I want people to be happy. And just because I love doing what I do, doesn’t mean everybody’s going to love personal injury. But you give people an opportunity.

David Craig:

And you’re better off to find that out while you’re in law school than actually as you become an attorney. I see a lot of miserable attorneys out there because they got stuck doing something they didn’t like doing.

Kevin Daisey:

Oh, 100%. Yeah. So I think that’s a great path for anyone listening. Especially if you’re a law student tuning in or a young attorney that’s on the fence about what they’re going to be doing. I think you really got to figure it out. Some of the most successful managing partners I’ve had on this show have that similar path. They did this, they did that. They figured out, “I don’t want to do that,” found their sweet spot and said, “This is what I want to do.” And I think they’re a better attorneys for it.

David Craig:

And I also think lawyers are great at, when you’re in law school, just reaching out to them and asking them. And sitting down and having a cup moment. I have a lot. Either they’re law clerks for me, or I’ve sat down and had a lot of cup of coffees with folks and tried to help guide them. And my daughter’s a lawyer in my law firm. My son’s a lawyer in my law firm.

Kevin Daisey:

Cool.

David Craig:

Before they ever became lawyers in my law firm, they clerked here, they were couriers here. They did a lot of different things because they had an opportunity to find out. I was like, “Is this what you want?” My son has an MBA. So I thought maybe he would go in the business area. I had a business degree. I love business. But he ended up loving what he does. And so he turned out to be a great personal injury lawyer, as is my daughter.

Kevin Daisey:

But instead of just being your family there, they had no option. They had an option. They could try it out. If they like it, that’s fine. But they’re not forced or feel like that’s the only thing they can do. So that’s good.

David Craig:

Yeah. I wanted them to be happy. I didn’t care what area they went into, what they did.

Kevin Daisey:

Excellent. I love it. I think also on the other side is in my business in the past is like a clerk, but we’re a marketing company is paid internships. And some of folks, they’re now full time. They’re a leadership. They’ve been here for quite a long time. But others left and went on and found another passion and that’s fine. But we’re not footing the bill for someone that’s trying to make 60, $75,000 a year and not even sure if it’s the right fit or not.

David Craig:

Yeah, I agree.

Kevin Daisey:

It’s a good testing ground.

David Craig:

Yeah. Also, I think by helping people, the ones that don’t stick, they refer business to me, they’re good friends. I work with them. Some of them have niche practices that I refer cases to them. So it’s a win-win situation. When you’re helping people, I don’t care what you’re doing. If you’re helping them and you’re helping them grow, it’s going to benefit you. It’s the right thing to do anyway.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah. I totally agree. I’ve lost some of my best people to them starting their own businesses and still good friends with them so I’m connected with them. We do pass segments back and forth. And it was kind of like, “Oh, we don’t want to lose them,” but we knew from day one based on their profile, that’s what they were going to do. And we knew it. We just ignored it, I guess.

Kevin Daisey:

But you can tell those folks when they come in, you’re like, “All right. They’re not going to be here long. We probably can’t keep them interested long enough, I guess.” But hey, it is what it is. They got to go do their thing.

David Craig:

Right. I’ve been fortunate. The law clerks that I’ve had and I’ve kept, I get a sort through to figure out which ones are the best, which ones are the best fit. And which ones are really caring. If you’re just out for the money, then you’re not going to fit in my firm. But if you care about people and you don’t think you’re any better or worse than anybody else, including my receptionist, my janitors or whoever, then you’re going to thrive at my company. Like I said, my, one of my partners has been with me for over 30 years. All my attorneys were law clerks. I don’t have turnover rate.

David Craig:

I’ve been very fortunate, very blessed in that we keep the people we have and that man, it’s so much easier to grow and provide good quality service when you have these people that are invested in your company. And so that’s been one of the keys to our success is really getting the right people in the door and then keeping them.

Kevin Daisey:

That’s right. It’s all about it. I love it. I really want to talk about some marketing and things that you’ve guys have done. I’ve, again, just briefly get to look at what you’ve done out there and your website and some of the things that you’re focused on. But really some of the things I saw, like the podcast, the book, not all law firms are really utilizing those things and putting themselves out there.

Kevin Daisey:

So what are some of the things that you feel in the last few years anyway, have been really successful and really helped you guys grow in the way of getting in front of clients?

David Craig:

Yeah. Part of it is it starts with providing a good quality service. One of the areas that we have a niche is in truck accident law. My partner, Scott Faultless and I are both board certified. There’s less than 100, maybe around 50 board certified lawyers in the whole country. So narrowing your niche down and saying, “Okay, what areas of practice do I want to be?” That’s been one of the things that’s helped us grow is say, “Okay, we’re not going to compete for everything. We’re not going to do mass torts. We’re not going to do product liability. We’re not going to do medical malpractice. But we are going to do truck wrecks.” And we’re going to do a darn good job of those because we’re board-certified. We’re educated. We have the knowledge, the resources and the experience to handle those type cases.

David Craig:

So then you say, “Okay, now we’ve narrowed a niche. Now, how do we market it? How do we let the world know? We’ve been doing a great job representing individual clients and getting great results, but now how do we let people know that?” So lawyers knew it because we got a lot of referrals from other lawyers. The legal community knew it. We got referral from judges and prosecutors and people in the communities. Healthcare providers knew it. They referred cases to us. But how do this general public… And I speak at national conferences with other lawyers, but I love actually talking just to ordinary people. I love talking to people.

David Craig:

And I believe that if you give them information, it’s power. Whether they use me or they don’t use me, I need to provide them with information so that if them or their family are in a horrible, catastrophic wreck with a semi or other commercial motor vehicle, that they know how to hire a lawyer. They know what questions to ask. They know what to expect. And so that’s why I wrote the book. I wrote the book, Semitruck Wrecks: A Guide for Victims and Their Families. Really to provide information to people who may never hire me.

David Craig:

And then I thought, “Gosh, it was limited in what I could do in a book.” So that’s why I started the podcast. The podcast, I could care less whether I get a lot of people listening to it or not, but those people who need the information can listen to it. And they can listen to like what is a structured settlement per se? What is an accident reconstruction? What is the download of an ECM? So much stuff that lawyers may know, but the average person doesn’t know. And so we provided that podcast. And what I have found is that by providing content, a lot of free content with no expectation back, has been one of the greatest marketing things that I could have ever done.

Kevin Daisey:

That’s awesome. No, I love it. And so yeah, a lot of key points there that most or all attorneys should be listening to is you got to focus. If you got a niche, everything becomes so much easier when you can give that direct message to anyone listening. And starting to get the message out there that, “Hey, this is what we specialize in,” and what you’re known for. And you can really become experts at that. So it makes a ton of sense, the book and the podcast.

Kevin Daisey:

But folks today want answers. They want to be able to get questions answered quickly. They like to do their own research. They like to Google and find out some things before they make that phone call. And so people like to be empowered and find the answers. And then the people that help them with those answers like yourself are going to be most likely the ones they might reach out to when they need assistance.

Kevin Daisey:

So I think it’s great. There’s a good book written that they ask, you answer. And exactly what you said is you give people all the information, the questions that they have, answer them. Blog, book, podcast, whatever. Because at the end of the day, they’re going to need to hire someone if there’s a national situation or a case. So give them the information they’re looking for.

David Craig:

Yeah. I think that so often we look at it and we’re so busy doing what we’re doing. But if you think about it as how do you help more people? And so you put out the book. I tell in the book, I say, “If it’s a catastrophic, this is a huge case. And you’re going against the trucking companies and insurance carriers that have millions. And can hire the best lawyers. You want to interview several lawyers. One of the things you look at is, ‘Okay, who are these folks? Am I comfortable with them?’”

David Craig:

What kind of information? And what separates us, I’ve had many people say, “I read your book and I listened to the parts of your podcast because I had specific questions that you answered. And that’s what caused me to pick you over some of the other competitors.” And I think that we need to do that. I think we need to provide information to people in our area that we can help them. And if you do that, what I have found is that my goodness, it benefits you as well.

Kevin Daisey:

No, a 100%. And I feel we used to not be like that. But now, we do digital marketing from law firms. We talk about how to do what we do all the time. And so we put out tons of content on social media. We have another podcast as well for just that. Videos, we do meetups. And I think the old mindset is that, “Don’t tell people how you’re going to do it.” If they’re going to do it themselves, then they’re not really a client fit for me anyway. Yeah. I’m looking for the client that is interested in what we are doing, but needs us to do it for them.

Kevin Daisey:

So if they want answers, I’ll give you all the answers. I’ll tell you exactly what’s wrong with your website, how to fix it, why it’s a problem, what it means? And if they’re going to go implement them themselves, then that’s totally fine with me. And good on them. I hope it helped them.

David Craig:

The reality is people that do what you do are extraordinarily helpful. And when you’re looking at trying to decide I need somebody on my team. Do you pick somebody like that? Or do you pick somebody who’s just sales, sales, sales, sales? And I think most people are going to pick people who can help them. Because if you’re willing to help them for nothing, you’re taking an interest in them, then that’s somebody who you want to partner up with.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah. I totally agree with that. I’ve heard people like, “Oh, if we give an audit to somebody or we’re looking at all our stuff and you’re just going to hand it to them and send it to them, they can have their other company do it.” I hope that doesn’t happen. But if it does, then that’s fine. And maybe they just have a good relationship with them.

Kevin Daisey:

And they were kind enough to take the meeting with us. It doesn’t mean they’re going to leave their current relationship. They gave us a shot. They talked to us. They knew who we are. They did know who we are before. And if something changes, maybe they’ll say, “Hey, those guys helped us out. And we’ll give them a call back one day.” So yeah, you got to put out good things out to the world and they’ll come back.

Kevin Daisey:

So tell us a little bit about the podcast. And again, I just kind of take a look at it, but do you have attorneys in the firm on there doing different types of episodes?

David Craig:

The podcast is After the Crash. The video version’s on YouTube. What I decided to do was very specific people who I work with and I have access to, that a client doesn’t. So the best accident reconstructionist, the best mechanics, the best structured settlement people, economists, you name it, cell phone downloads, those are very specific niche areas that have to do with truck wrecks, semitruck wrecks. And then I interview those people about what they do. And I may talk to them for an hour. So it’s very specific. And again, it’s not a sales pitch. It’s just information.

David Craig:

So I’ll talk to an accident reconstructionist for an hour and say, “What do you do? How do you download a semi? What’s important in reconstruction?” It’s getting out there quick, preserving evidence. And so I want to give people the information. It’s the same thing as the book, except more detail. People can pick and choose.

David Craig:

And what the byproduct has been, when somebody is looking to, “Should I hire you or not?” I can tell them, “Look, the investigators I use are former FBI agents. And I’ve interviewed them. If you would like to see who the people that I use, go on my podcast. Go on YouTube. Look at After the Crash. And you’ll get to see them.”

Kevin Daisey:

That’s awesome.

David Craig:

“Before you even have to hire me, you can see who I am, what kind of people I use and what kind of experts I use.” The podcast, it’s not me answering questions. It’s me asking questions like you’re doing today,” where people can get the information about semitruck wrecks.

Kevin Daisey:

Oh, I love that. I like too that you’re pulling these experts. You’re interviewing them and getting their perspective and asking them questions, versus just you talking. I see a lot of attorneys out there that put a lot of content out, but it’s usually just them saying one little piece of the law or what this means or whatever. It’s fine, but its issues are all over the place. It’s not very specific and detailed. It’s really just putting out content, I guess.

David Craig:

This is very specific. We put out a lot of other content. I think SEO is extraordinarily important, even the locals map or something is even more important, being on the local maps. But if I could pick, I’d be on the local map, plus the first SEO search.

Kevin Daisey:

And the ad spots, never got to go all of it.

David Craig:

We don’t do pay-per-click at all. But I’m on the maps, on pretty much most of the key terms. The top firm listed in semitruck wrecks and the SEO. Again, by going to a niche, it’s a lot easier to target specific things than it would be for me to be on everything.

Kevin Daisey:

A 100%.

David Craig:

A very specific targeting towards that. So we put out a lot of content, I think Google appreciates the fact that instead of me just telling stuff and trying to sell you again, I’m providing a lot of content that is important and is helpful and is in informational.

Kevin Daisey:

That right there, everyone, listen is really like the key to Google. So Google’s looking for authenticity, trust and that you have helpful information for the searcher. They don’t care about you. They care about the person looking for the information. And so SEO, if you will, for the local maps or for the organic and the listings, it all comes down to trust. And Google’s like, “Okay, does this site, does it load fast? Is it user-friendly? Is it healthy? No blacklist and all that stuff.” And then it looks at the content. Is the content helpful? Is it updated often? Does it answer the question that the searcher just asked in Google? And how relevant is it?

Kevin Daisey:

So that’s really the key to Google right there is what you’re doing. And then the three pack. The map’s listings, huge. There’s your high trust area. So three listings on the front, reviews are clearly displayed. People trust those when they see those over an ad. 3% of the ads get clicks, 3%. The three listings on the map get 30 to 40%. And then below that is the rest. Those are key areas to get into.

Kevin Daisey:

So if you are going to advertise, yeah, it works. But if you can nail those other things, that’s where you’re going to have a strong hold and have good traffic for a long time.

David Craig:

And I think it’s harder for people. People want a quick fix. Lawyers are like, “Okay, make this happen tomorrow.”

Kevin Daisey:

PPC, let’s go.

David Craig:

I think you have to invest a lot of time over a long period. And people ask me the same thing. “Why do you tell people what to do?” And quite frankly, most lawyers don’t do it. I could lay it out for them and give it to them in a playbook and say, “Here you go.” And people wouldn’t do it if they did. So what? I’m happy to help.

David Craig:

But the reality is most people will not consistently do content and do the hard work. And they look for quick fixes and quick solutions. Really, to do the rank high in SEO, at least my experience has been, to get on the maps. You’re going to have to put time and effort and team up with the right people, because otherwise you’re just wasting your money.

Kevin Daisey:

I completely agree with you. I talk to potential clients all the time. And the ones that aren’t good fits for us is the ones that are like, “We just started the firm and we want phone calls tomorrow.” And then they’ll list 10 practice areas that they want to get leads for. Let’s bring you back down to earth. And it’s just not possible, especially if you don’t have the budget.

Kevin Daisey:

But yeah, ads, it can get you there quick. But if you ignore all the things that David is focused on, then you’re always there paying for the ads and you’re never building up that foundation. Then you’re constantly paying for ads and you can never turn them off or your phone stops ringing.

Kevin Daisey:

So if you really want to build a good firm, a presence in an area, maybe you’re new. Maybe you left a firm, you’re starting your own firm. You need to do the fundamentals of what we call it. So that’s focus on your website, focus on your content, look at those organic listings and rankings. And just think about you’re doing the high trust things that will be established for a long time. So totally agree with you. You’re preaching to the choir.

David Craig:

Also lawyers, at least the way we want to do it, we want to work on high quality cases. I’ve got 10 lawyers. I raised them. They came up from law school. I sent them up to the best trial schools. They had the best teachers. And then they get trial experience on working on smart case when they work their way up. And I think that’s important, your quality of what you’re doing.

David Craig:

And again, when you niche, it’s easier. Because you don’t have to learn as much. And so you have great people, great attorneys. Then you go out and get great results. Then people have comfort and confidence in you. And then people give you great reviews. But again, that’s a harder investment than saying, “I’m going to stand on top of a semi and yell and scream at people on a TV commercial, because maybe some people will click on it.”

David Craig:

Most of my clients would be offended by it because they lost a loved one in a semi wreck. Yet board certified, it’s not easy to be board certified. But it’s worth the process because you want to create the highest quality representation you can provide. And then you want to market it.

Kevin Daisey:

Absolutely.

David Craig:

And it’s a lot easier to market a good product than it is a bad product.

Kevin Daisey:

And that’s where nicheing is so much more powerful too. Because your message, everything gets so precise and clean and simple, that marketing becomes a lot easier. Especially you have a good reputation, you’ve done good work. Marketing just becomes easier and easier.

Kevin Daisey:

You look at some of these general practitioners and you’re talking about SEO or advertising, family law and personal injury. And then you got all the categories. Every single life type of accident, you can imagine mass tort, whatever. That’s a challenge. And you can’t really be good at all those things. And you can’t advertise for all those things unless you have super deep pockets. So I think it’s important to niche. At least have a niche that you market. Now, maybe you can do some other practice areas that you can handle, but you can’t market for all of those and say you’re the best at all of them. So I totally agree.

Kevin Daisey:

And that’s way into law of marketing for law firms. We have clients that are not law firms. We have a lot of medical clients in the past. But we only work now with law firms. And that’s our whole stick. For us to be good at and to understand how law firms operate, we have to be immersed in it. And talking to folks like yourself and understanding how your business operate. Because we’re not lawyers. We don’t run law firms. So it’s been a lot easier for us.

David Craig:

And I also recommend the lawyers, if you find somebody like Kevin and you decide to do business with them, find people who you’re compatible with, but then stick with them. Again, I go to conferences and I’m asked to speak fairly frequently. I hear lawyers complaining about whoever’s doing their marketing.

Kevin Daisey:

Not us.

David Craig:

Yeah, not you guys though.

David Craig:

But the reality is, it’s a lot of times like, “What are you putting in into it? What are you investing into it other than just money?” And then, how long have you been with them? And what were the expectations? I just see too many people hop from one place to the next place, to the next place, rather than staying consistently and just saying, “Hey, look, I trust these people. Kevin knows a lot more about marketing digitally than I do.”

David Craig:

And so in the same way with the people I use. The reality is you trust them. You do your research. You make sure that they know what they’re doing. And then you trust them. And then you stick it out with them. And you work with them.

Kevin Daisey:

There’s a Ronald Reagan trust, but verify.

David Craig:

Yeah.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah, trust but make sure we’re doing the right thing. Let’s look at the reports together. Let’s look at where we’re going.

Kevin Daisey:

And yeah, we see clients come on board sometimes that every year a different marketing company. Or they went internal then they went back. They don’t really know what they want to do. And Google doesn’t like all that. So you need to be consistent, stick with what you’re doing if you have to. If it’s not working and they’re not doing their job, that’s different. But do your due diligence. Don’t hop and hop and hop because you’re just costing yourself a lot more money, time for them to get spun up, understand your business.

Kevin Daisey:

So yeah, if you got a good partner and they’re doing a good job, but you’d like them to do better, talk to them. And say, “Hey, we’d like to do better. What can we do?” But you don’t need to just hop, hop, hop. That’s not going to really help you out.

David Craig:

Yep. I agree.

Kevin Daisey:

So I agree with that a 100%. And then you can tell when they had too. They got all kinds of mess in their accounts and their website. It’s just in shambles. So it’s usually a lot more work for us going into a client like that to clean things up and try to get things back to a stable position. So yeah, hire someone. Trust them just like you would hire David. Say, “This is who I’ve brought on. Let’s let him do his thing.”

Kevin Daisey:

David, man, I really appreciate you sharing some of the cool things you’re doing. Everyone listening, tuning in, if you’re watching this, their website’s at the bottom of the screen, ckflaw.com. If you’re on the podcast, listening on audio, so ckflaw.com, C-K-F, law.com. Go check out David and when he is doing his podcast and his book, I believe right on the homepage of the website. It goes off to where you can see all the different episodes and see his guests.

Kevin Daisey:

But David, I really just love what you’re doing and that you’re focused. You’re niche. And you’re digging your heels and you’re all in. So yeah, I love it.

David Craig:

I appreciate it.

Kevin Daisey:

Kudos to you, sir. Anything else you want to share, David? Anything big on the agenda? What’s the next couple years look like for you?

David Craig:

So we’re headquartered in Indianapolis. I have lawyers licensed in Indiana, Missouri, Kentucky, Ohio, Illinois. Just opened a St. Louis office to handle truck wreck cases out of St. Louis. And we’ll be opening offices in those other areas throughout the Midwest. So we’re growing. We’re growing at a rapid rate.

David Craig:

We’ve decided, although I do speak to other law firms and attorneys, but I like communicating directly to the people. So we’re doing safety events. And we’re doing community events where we can help our branding in the sense that, “Hey look, here’s what we are. We do what we preach. We give out free content. We do things that try to help people keep out of wrecks and to prevent wrecks and to share roads with semi safely.”

David Craig:

And I think those are the type of things that have helped us. And those are the things that we’ll continue to do. My motto is that, we want to make a positive difference in the lives of our clients and the folks in the communities in which we practice. And so that’s what we’ll keep on doing. And as we do that, we’ll continue to expand throughout the Midwest.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah. I love it. Exciting stuff and good ambition. Just excited for you. So I think you’re doing all the right things. Anyone listening, I think a lot to take out of this episode, especially if you’re again looking at going into practice and you’re thinking about, “I can do this and that.” And all these things, I think really stop and focus and think about what you really want to do. What you can niche in and focus and look for the area that you know you can not just do well in, maybe there’s a gap. Maybe there’s a lot of referral sources for work that others might not want to do, other attorneys. But something that you’re very passionate about doing. And you feel like you can help others.

Kevin Daisey:

Other thing too is give out free information. Give out content. There’s many ways to do it. It doesn’t have to be a podcast. It doesn’t have to be a book. But there’s so many platforms these days, social media, where you can just get out there and tell people the answers to the questions that they have. So, I love it.

David Craig:

I agree.

Kevin Daisey:

David, anything else you want to share before we go?

David Craig:

No. I appreciate Kevin. I appreciate the opportunity to be on and share a little bit about what Craig, Kelley and Faultless is.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah. Again, love what you’re doing. And I think a lot of people should take a look at your site. Really great site, too. I like the design. I like the look and feel. Good calls to action. I think there’s probably a lot to be learned from folks that might go check out your website. So again, go check out his website. We’ll be posting this soon as well in many places.

Kevin Daisey:

So we have close to 200 episodes. I think live on our website from interviews with The Managing Partners, just like David here from all around the country, all different practice areas. You can search by either of those to filter and find an attorney that might be a good fit for you to listen to. You can go to thisisarray.com/podcast.

Kevin Daisey:

We also have a biweekly newsletter that goes out to all of our guests and people signed up for the newsletter. It’s called The Managing Partners Newsletter. You can sign up for that there too. But David will be featured there. And this soon, David will probably also feature your book in our book club. So all of our Managing Partners that have written books will put you in the mix. We’ll share that out to about 1500 Managing Partners and anyone else that’s on our list. So check out that coming out soon.

Kevin Daisey:

And then if you need help doing what David’s doing, or even coming close to what he is doing, reach out to us, thisisarray.com. That’s exactly what we help firms do. Develop a plan, content, strategy, getting in that three pack on the maps, organic, also advertising in social media. So anything like that you need help with, reach out. Happy to help you. Even if it’s free information and you don’t use us, we’ll be happy to help.

Kevin Daisey:

So David, just stick on with me for just a second. Everyone else, thank you for tuning in. I hope you gained a lot of knowledge from David here. And we’ll talk to you soon.

David Craig:

Thanks, Kevin.