THE

Managing
Partners
podcast

Episode # 204
Interview on 06.30.2022

Hosted By
Kevin Daisey

Featuring Attorney

Elizabeth Kaveny



Managing Partner of
Kaveny + Kroll, LLC

About Elizabeth Kaveny

Elizabeth A. Kaveny is the Managing Partner at Kaveny + Kroll, LLC in Illinois.

Elizabeth is a Chicago trial attorney who has achieved great success in plaintiff’s personal injury and medical malpractice for the past 25 years. She is well known and respected in the legal community for her hard work and for the outstanding recoveries obtained for her clients, both in settlements and in jury verdicts.

She was a principal in the law firms of Propes & Kaveny and Burke, Wise, Morrissey & Kaveny. Taking the best from great mentors and trial attorneys that came before her, Elizabeth established the law firm of Kaveny + Kroll in 2019, where she and her partner, Jeffrey J. Kroll, continue their high-quality representation of victims of medical negligence, motor vehicle and trucking accidents, workplace injuries and general personal injury.

Learn from her expertise and what trends are helping grow her firm on this episode of The Managing Partners Podcast!

Watch the Episode

Episode Transcript

Kevin Daisey:

Hello, everyone. Welcome to another live recording of the Managing Partners Podcast. My name’s Kevin Daisey, and I’ll be your host. I’m also the founder of Array Digital, where we help law firms grow with digital marketing. Today I got a special guest actually recording over the holidays in between Christmas and new year’s because we don’t stop over here, and my guest doesn’t either. So Elizabeth Kaveny, welcome to the show.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Kevin, thank you so much. And thanks for having me.

Kevin Daisey:

Absolutely. No, thanks for connecting with me and looking forward to hearing more about your story. I got a little bit of insight, we’ve spoken before, so I’m just happy to have you here again over the holidays sharing your story.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

My pleasure.

Kevin Daisey:

So just so we get started, I want to know more about you, and your story, and your passions, and your firm, but just so we’re getting started here anyone that’s tuning in early when this is live. Tell us your firm name and I’ll put up the website address so they can actually go take a look and learn more about your firm as they’re listening.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Sure. Well, I am the managing partner of Kaveny & Kroll which you may see behind me, and Kaveny & Kroll is a boutique litigation plaintiff’s firm in Chicago.

Kevin Daisey:

Excellent. Okay. So everyone if you’re turning in, if you’re watching on video here you can see the web address below on the screen. If you are listening, that’s kavenykroll.com, that’s kavenykroll.com. You can go take a look at her firm, learn more about what they do and what they specialize in. As always, I like to make sure people know what each other do. Other management partners hopefully can connect and create some referral sources, and that’s what we help promote here as well.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

I love it.

Kevin Daisey:

So thank you so much again for coming on. So first I want to start with your story, your journey. What made you become an attorney? What was that defining moment? And tell us a little bit about that journey to where you are now.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

It’s so funny because from watching some of your podcasts, I think that a common theme that I find is it’s a very windy, twisted turn to become a managing partner of a law firm, much less to become a lawyer and mine is definitely the same. I’m from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and for those of you who are familiar with Pittsburgh, or the Pittsburgh Steelers, or U.S Steel we are a steel town. And I’m from a steel family, I worked in a steel Foundry growing up and I went to Lehigh University. I was the first and the next generation to take over my family’s steel business, and I went to Lehigh and studied engineering and economics and came back and worked there for a year with every intention of taking that business into the next generation for my younger sisters and my cousins that were all younger than I am.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

And we within a year after being at a school like Lehigh, which is Bethlehem steel’s Engineering School, I could quickly see that this was not a business that was going to support another generation. It had been in my family for I would’ve been the fourth generation, but weren’t automated enough, we weren’t advanced enough, we hadn’t done the right things to keep us modern if you could be modern at all in the steel industry. So I convinced my dad that now was the time and we took the steel company apart and we sold off the pieces and we paid for my sisters, my cousins, myself, everybody to go to college and me to go to law school. So that’s how I ended up in law school. I picked law school because like so many people on your show, I took a couple law classes in college and liked them unlike a lot of other things.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

And I went to law school, I didn’t have any lawyers in my family, no real law background, but jumped in with both feet. And I got to say other than having my children, which I know you as a dad can relate, it was the best three years of my life. It was three years where I knew I was exactly where I was supposed to be, I loved every day of law school. I loved the learning, I loved the mock trial, I loved the classes, I loved the intellect, I loved the other people. It was just a really amazing experience and reinforce in my mind this is the right track that I’m on. So that’s how I get started.

Kevin Daisey:

Very awesome story. Very interesting story. And I think honestly one of the things I think that as a managing partner and being very successful and doing your own thing is being that young and realizing and recognizing that that business wasn’t going to be sustainable.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Yeah.

Kevin Daisey:

That’s a hard thing to do, especially if you don’t have quite the experience. You’re young, to make that decision for yourself I think it was pretty awesome.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Yeah, and not just for myself, but it for my entire family. It’s a big burden, but it prepared me for the burden of being a lawyer representing clients, and being a managing partner, and leading other attorneys. So start young, start strong.

Kevin Daisey:

I love it. I love it. So I’m actually in Virginia, so I’ve been to Pennsylvania quite a few times so not too far away from me, but I don’t think I’ve ever been to Pittsburgh though, but amazing story I love it. So I want to take it a little bit of step further is take us through you became an attorney, went law school, out of there what path did you take? I assume you went to work with some other firms were you worked your way through to get to where you are now, so give us a little more information on that. And then when you started your firm now.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Sure. So I knew from law school and from being on the mock trial team, that I wanted to be a trial lawyer I wanted to be in the courtroom. I couldn’t understand why anyone would go to law school and want to do something else, transactional work or contracts, I didn’t understand it. To me, there was nothing better than being on your feet, cross examining, direct examinations, just thinking on your feet. And so my mom worked for Midway Airlines based out of Chicago, I loved Chicago and I wanted to come to the City of Chicago. So I found a firm that was hiring an associate, a small firm, they had three attorneys and they wanted an associate and they wanted an associate with experience. And this is one of the greatest things I can share to younger lawyers, and that is never take no for an answer.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

So I told them I was coming to Chicago interview with some other firms, not true, that I was going to be there in two weeks, not true, and that I wanted to just meet them and learn a little bit more about their firm. So I got my foot in the door and after the interview, which went very well, the attorney said, “We’re just not looking for a first year, we want an attorney with some experience.” And I said, “I’ll tell you what, I will come to Chicago and I will work for your firm for free for one month. And if at the end of the month, you do not think that I add value then I’ll walk away no hard feelings, but I think you’re going to find that you made a good bet on me.” And so they did. And so that’s why I say never take no for an answer, get your foot in, push, push, push if it’s something that you really want. So that was my first job Epstein, Zaideman & Esrig was the name of the firm.

Kevin Daisey:

That’s awesome.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Great firm to start with, five years of litigation experience. I tried a murder case within my first year of passing the bar, solo, did a lot of civil work, did a lot of criminal defense work, was in the courtroom all the time trying cases. And I’m really grateful to those guys for giving my start, they were all wonderful mentors in different ways. I went from there, once things changed there I went to Kane Obish Propes and Garippo which was exactly the same thing, another small litigation firm plaintiffs, personal injury firm. That they were all in the courtroom a lot, they did mostly PI, a little bit of criminal defense, they were all great lawyers, and I went and I worked for them for a few years.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

They had one thing that my previous firm did not have and that was a woman. They had a female attorney, which I very much wanted to work for a female attorney as a female. It makes a difference, and I wanted to see how does a female attorney address? How does a female attorney carry off a cross examination without looking like a bitch? How does a female attorney carry herself in court? How does she handle a room full of men and male doctors as witnesses? And so Lorna Propes was that partner that started as my mentor, and within a couple of years we became partners. We started Propes & Kaveny and she double crossed me in a horrible way and became a judge.

Kevin Daisey:

Oh no.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

So I say, she gave me the best gift and the worst gift that you could ever give a young lawyer, and that is an entire law firm. So I inherited the law firm from her, at the same time I had four children under the age of six and decided to merge with the firm. Did that for eight years, it was a very good firm, it took me to a new level of the type of cases that we did. Very catastrophic, high end, seven, eight figure cases, and took me to a new level of trying cases. And one day I looked around and truthfully Kevin, I had been there for eight years, the main partner who I loved and that I went there for had retired and I looked around and I thought, I don’t really even like these people.

Kevin Daisey:

That’s awesome.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Sorry [inaudible 00:11:39] but sometimes things evolve, people evolve, relationships evolve, I evolve and-

Kevin Daisey:

Change.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Yeah, things change. And I was like, okay, I’ve got one good chapter left of my life, of my career, what do I want to do with it? And I had been at so many great firms, had been with so many great mentors. And I said, I want to start a firm from scratch. I want to take everything I’ve learned, all the best people from all the best firms, and I want to start from scratch and I want to do it exactly the way it should be done. From communication with clients, to how a firm works internally, to how to make everybody on a team versus competitive, to compensation. And I just created it from the ground up, I spent a year devising it and that’s the birth of Kaveny & Kroll.

Kevin Daisey:

I love it. I absolutely love it. So a couple key things in there too I think, one you had time to plan and really create what you want.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Yeah.

Kevin Daisey:

And I think a lot of businesses, not just law firms, but they’re usually started no budget, no structure, no process, you just got to have to do what you can.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Yeah.

Kevin Daisey:

And so it’s hard to over time change it to what you need to be, but so you had a nice fresh start which is great. And then also communication with clients you mentioned that, that’s massive and that’s something that my company we work on constantly. And it’s never perfect, it’s always a work in progress, but that’s a huge piece.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

It is the number one complaint made to the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission, is that clients don’t receive the communication from their attorneys on what’s going on with their or case.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah, and they’re concerned and worried.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Yeah, exactly. So we have a pattern set up of every time a case hits a milestone, the client automatically gets a letter saying, “Hey, great news. All of your medical records are in, we’re ready to review the case. We should be back to you within 30 to 60 days.” So that they know to expect. I mean, this is their life, and in many cases they are lost and we don’t want them to feel that way.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah. And so we do just marketing for law firms, which is what we do, but same thing. Well, it is the budget, it’s their money for their marketing advertising so it’s what’s going on? Am I getting calls? Am I getting leads? Is my money wasted? So it’s not quite life and death, but it’s their livelihood and for us it’s we have to be Johnny-on-the-spot with that communication and say, “You’re now here, we got this done.” I think there’s the communication on for law firms, I hear that’s a big issue and concern for a lot of firms.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

You might not think it’s life and death marketing for a law firm, but you’d be surprised. It is, we put a lot of stock and a lot of faith in a company like yours when we pick it to do our advertising. And we are supporting an entire staff of employees and their families, and clients and their families, and you’re at the pinnacle of that marketing for us. So give yourself a pat on the back, you are actually [crosstalk 00:15:16].

Kevin Daisey:

Well, I appreciate that. And that’s actually something which is off topic here, but that we’re working on internally to let our staff and team members know we don’t just make websites, we don’t just do this, but we’re helping you or our law firm clients help their clients which are people in need. So it’s the better we can do the better more people they can help, so we’re working on that from a more of an internal messaging culture of why do you show up to work and why do we do what we do? Because it’s not just making websites or social media posts, right? But anyway, that’s something aside that we’re working on, but so also one more thing I wanted to hit on which I thought was hilarious, was that you basically were like, hey, I’m going to be in Chicago next week or whatever. I have done that same thing to get a client before like, “Oh, I’m actually going to be in Florida, Orlando Tuesday.” And They’re like, Oh, really?”

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Oh, you’re busy today? I meant Wednesday. Yeah, Wednesday actually.

Kevin Daisey:

And then I’m messaging someone on my team like, “What am I got going on? Can I get a flight right away?” So I booked it after they agreed to meet and then I never had a meeting, so-

Elizabeth Kaveny:

You do what you need to do, right?

Kevin Daisey:

They became a client.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Yeah, good for you.

Kevin Daisey:

So yeah, you got to do what you got to do. I love that, and that’s a good move right there. So awesome story so far. So I want to ask a little more about the firm specifically.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Sure.

Kevin Daisey:

Some of the marketing you’ve done now. How long have you had this new brand, the new firm?

Elizabeth Kaveny:

It’s been three years now.

Kevin Daisey:

Three years? Okay. So what are some of the things that you’ve done just because we do do marketing and we like to ask a little bit about that, what are some of the things that you’ve done outside of just referrals? I know you have connections and I’m sure you have mentors and referral partners, what have you done from a marketing standpoint, outreach, websites, all that stuff that has generated some cases coming in the door?

Elizabeth Kaveny:

I’ve tried to think outside the box as I did when forming the firm and not do just the tried and true things. I think there’s organizations that everybody feels like, oh, we have to join this or , oh, our name is going to be missing from this list if we don’t pay them $10,000.

Kevin Daisey:

You got to be a super lawyer.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I didn’t want to call anybody out, but yeah.

Kevin Daisey:

It’s all right, I’ll do it.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

I’m glad you did, thank you. So I tried to think outside the box and how do people get to a lawyer? And what are they looking for? And whether it’s from a referring attorney or it’s a direct in from a client, it’s usually a personal relationship and someone that they really care about. And so I’ve tried to create a website, tried to create videos on our website that show we’re people. The same thing in my Facebook and in my LinkedIn, I put in there pictures of my dogs, and that I have four children, and that I spent four months in the NICU. I know what it’s like to have a child with special needs or coming from a hard start.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

And try to market those aspects of us that might not be as well as one of the top 25 medical malpractice attorneys in the country, all the things, the accolades that I get, but also remember I’m a person and I care about other people and it’s why I do what I do. And most of the referrals, even if they come in from a lawyer, it’s their neighbor, it’s their cousin, it’s their uncle, it’s their mother, it’s someone that means something to them. It’s not just a cold call they got on the phone that they’re referring to me, and so I think that personal touch in marketing is something that I’ve tried to emphasize.

Kevin Daisey:

No, I love that. And I completely agree, and for me those things have to be done right and if not, anything I could do or market advertise for you just say. If the website in your brand, your message, the human element, your culture, whatever, if that’s not it done right and it’s not appealing to anyone or they don’t feel they get to know you or they’re not comfortable then you’re really wasting money on a lot of other ways to get people to your site.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Yeah.

Kevin Daisey:

If that site’s not doing it’s job and not just the site, but it could be your brand, the logos, the everything, photos, the people all those things I think everyone needs to think about as an attorney or a managing partner. That even if it was the referral and that referral first went to your site to see if they were going to call you how many referrals may not get because they’re like, oh, that looks like a stuffy old law firm. I don’t want to talk to them. I don’t know, but so it’s just how can you improve those things like you’ve done which will help amplify everything else you do? I’ve gotten clients where they say, “Hey, I’ve seen your videos on LinkedIn for six months and I feel like I know you, I want to become a client.” And I’m like, I don’t even know who they are and they’re just like, “I know it’s kind of weird, but I feel like I already know you guys.” And so video is strong with that, and posting and being authentic-

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Authentic, exactly. Authentic and genuine. Isn’t it so true that somebody should when they see your marketing, they should get a feel for you and your company and your culture and know whether you are the right one for them.

Kevin Daisey:

Exactly.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Because you might not be.

Kevin Daisey:

That’s okay.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

I mean, it doesn’t hurt my feeling if the client wants to go to a firm with all male and very traditional, dark wood and heavy library and all the books. And if that’s what they’re looking for then that’s it.

Kevin Daisey:

They’ll find it. They’ll find plenty of those.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

I’m more Suits than LA Law, but that’s okay.

Kevin Daisey:

Well, I think that’s the other important thing is understanding your ideal customer, and everything else you do is catering to them. It’s everything visually designed, everything should be having them in mind. And so this clients that you don’t want shouldn’t be attracted to you.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Right, exactly.

Kevin Daisey:

Again, for me, that’s so important what you’ve done there because I think a lot of people skip a lot of that stuff, they’re just like whatever. And they spend a lot of money advertising, or Google Ads or billboards, and there’s no consistent message, there’s no human element, there’s no reason to want to off to those people at all.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Finding a marketing company that you trust and it gets you I think is so important, because it is one of the biggest expenses of a law firm. And at least it should be from a managing partners perspective, it should be your space, your people and your perception for your marketing. So your three Ps, your people, your place, your perception, and the marketing is it’s either hitting your mark and it’s giving the right perception of who you are and who your firm is, or it’s not.

Kevin Daisey:

Yep, and I totally agree. And I have another personal podcast that I do and I just did an episode recently, but it was everything in your business is your marketing. The wall color, the people you hire, everything, every single thing you do and say inside or outside of the firm or your company is your marketing in some way. How someone interacts with people that are on the phone, how people interact with your employees, so just everything. So it’s something I think everyone needs to take a hard look at because I talk to a lot of firms that are not quite as put to together.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

I can see Kevin, why people fall in love with you and want Array Digital to do their marketing because you really get it, and I can see why you get law firms that contact you and be like, “I’ve watched some of your videos and I watched your podcasts and I need your help.” I can definitely see it.

Kevin Daisey:

Well, I appreciate that. We got ways to go. We niched in law about two years ago, so we’re still figuring things out, but we’re very selective too. We don’t just hire our sign on clients that are just not a good fit, there’s plenty of firms out there that are not good fit for us that we can’t help so it’s something that we work towards, but we know who’s the right fit and we got to be very focused on that and that’s it. But no, I appreciate that. Okay, so I’ll ask more questions about your firm. Three years in, what is your plans say for 2022 any big goals, any big plans? And then maybe looking five years out, what is on your radar? And we’ll put Omnicron and all that aside, we have no clue, we can’t control that, but other than that what is really your goals for growth going forward?

Elizabeth Kaveny:

That’s a really good question. So although we’re three years out, I feel like we’re one year out because the courts have been closed for two years and that’s just a fact. So we had a great first year, it was a lot about bonding, a lot of motivation of the employees, a lot of just getting to know each other and make us a cohesive team. That knew each other’s cases, knew each other’s clients, and nothing would be dropped. And I think as far as growth, where I’d like to see us go in the next year, we’re starting a birth injury trial on January 5th for a seven year old girl that has cerebral palsy as a result of her labor and delivery. So that is a two month trial for us that’ll take up a lot of 2022, kick us off and then we just have a backlog of trials that we are booked two in November, one in December, one in January, three in February and I think it’s going to be a catch up year for us.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Which will be great, it’ll be great to have those clients see their case come to a fruition, it’ll be great for us as a firm to have those cases closed from a financial perspective because we as a plaintiffs firm work on a contingency fee basis. So I think that’s my goal for 2022, is just to get us rolling in the way that I want us to roll in the future.

Kevin Daisey:

Excellent.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

My long term goal is to help every anybody here at the firm find their niche or their niches. I’ve definitely found mine, which is it’s hard as a managing partner. My heart goes out to all the managing partners because we’re in charge of HR, we’re in charge of finances, we’re in charge of hiring and firing, we are probably trial lawyers ourselves, and maybe even the main trial lawyer, we’re in charge of rain making. So we’re running everything in a lot of firms, in bigger firms maybe that’s not the case, but I imagine a lot of people that will listen to your podcast are in the same situation.

Kevin Daisey:

I am.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

My goal for my lawyers is for people to find their niches where they like, and they’re comfortable with those cases and make sure we’re all moving the boat in the same direction. And I’ve found some niches that I like and that I feel comfortable in, and that I think I’m the best lawyer in Chicago for and so I just want to keep moving in that direction. We’re also hiring, we’re hiring a couple new legal assistants, not necessarily a partner, but I like bringing women in, I like bringing them in from the ground level for one or two years and pushing them forward. I see ourselves as a female forward law firm, don’t tell my partner Jeff Kroll I said that.

Kevin Daisey:

I won’t tell him, I’ll have him one next week and ask him-

Elizabeth Kaveny:

As a female forward firm and get women in the law, and keep them in law, and show them how to do that as I was shown by my mentors, Lorna Propes and [Patty Bob 00:29:12].

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah, no, I love that. And you’re lucky that you had her there, right? And she was the only one at the time. Well, anyone listening to it, she’s hiring and if got any referrals for her maybe when you see this you can send anyone along to her website which is listed right below. So that’s great. So, I mean, I think that’s really good because I think as you become an attorney and find in your way and everyone that you bring on is probably in the same boat. They come into PI, their medical malpractice, what do they really want to niche in when they had that feeling of this is what I need to be doing?

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Yeah. I think the biggest mistake with medical malpractice cases is that attorneys try and do them themselves, it’s the false lore of easy money. They are by far the hardest cases to try and I’ve tried everything like I said, from murder case to slip and fall at the mall, they are by far the hardest cases to try. You are up against the toughest litigators in the city of Chicago, if not lawyers brought in from other parts of the country and they are the most expensive. It’s not unusual for me to have 250, $300,000 invested in one medical malpractice case before we even step foot inside the courthouse doors. And I’m fortunate enough, I feel of fortunate enough that I’ve come to a point in my career that I can do those types of cases. One other type of case that I wanted to mention that we’re doing right now which I’ve never done before is venturing into the world of mass torts.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

So I did a little bit of the Vioxx litigation, I did a little bit of the New England Compounding Center tainted steroids, but this one is near and dear to my heart. It is against Abbot and Mead Johnson for the production of infant formula geared towards premature babies. It’s a known fact that premature babies cannot digest formula made from cows milk, and yet these companies have made formulas that they specifically market, target, drop off for free at NICUs around the country. Sometimes times in the most socially deprived, socioeconomically deprived areas of the country and it causes the babies bellies, their intestines to literally perforate and they live with lifelong injuries and sometimes even death. So there’s thousands of babies across the country that have been affected by these formulas over the last 10 years, and so that’s something that I’ve found as one of my niches and one of my passions.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

And that’s one of things I like doing as the managing partner, right? Is that we get the luxury of being able to pick and choose what we are going to handle as cases and delegate other cases that we might think are better fitted or better suited to other attorneys in your firm. So these formula cases, I have two babies that were born premature and spent a lot of time in the NICU so this is near and dear to my heart. So I’m very involved in that, and I hope to spend a lot of time on that in the next five years.

Kevin Daisey:

Excellent. So we talked about this a little bit pre-show, and the web address is necbaby.com, so it’s necbaby.com if you’re listening to the podcast. So she’s actually created a niche site for this particular area, but go check that out and see what she’s done with that and I think-

Elizabeth Kaveny:

NEC or NEC is the disease that the babies develop, and so Necbaby just seemed like a natural.

Kevin Daisey:

For sure, it’s good marketing.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Thanks. Coming from a professional I appreciate that.

Kevin Daisey:

Well, I think too anyone that finds a special area or a niche, and I’ve got a few good attorneys on here, but one Jed Kurzban and I’ve been talking with him quite a bit, he’s a really cool guy. But he travels around the country, you mentioned that before with attorneys coming in, he’s one of those attorneys that comes in, he’s actually licensed in Florida and Hawaii, but he’s found a niche it in some kind of kidney medical malpractice. And it’s these huge cases, and he comes in and he flies all over the world all over the country and gets put up for months sometimes to work on these cases. But he has a site for it, it’s very specific. He needs one or two of his referrals a year and that’s all he does so very specialized, but I think it’s important that to put a site out there, put some content there for that, build some SEO value and that’s a good way to market for sure.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Thank you. Thanks. Yeah, it’s something that we’re really developing and we’re looking forward to getting more involved in, at least I personally am. I think as a managing partner, you want to know that you’re making a difference in not just your firm, but in the legal industry. At least I do. And by bringing attorneys up and helping them to be the best they can be, helping them find their niches, pushing them, and also still developing as an attorney myself. Still challenging me to find new avenues that I want to explore and things that I want to try it’s what it’s all about.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah. And you mentioned this too, I think-

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Always keeping the doors open too, which is…

Kevin Daisey:

I think you’ve done the time, you’ve done a lot of these cases, and yeah now you get to say, “Hey, I want that one and I don’t want that one.” And really focus on what you want to. Younger attorneys might not have that luxury coming into it and they got to find their own way, but it’s great that you’re putting together a system and a platform, a firm that allow them to find and specializes themselves.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

And I think it’s important as a managing partner to market not just yourself and not just your firm, but your younger attorneys. I mean, I’m always amazed at even the youngest of my attorneys, the referrals that they bring in. I mean, they bring in great cases, they’ve got just as many connections and I think it’s silly to overlook their potential and not to market them as well. And so we really try and do a spotlight of the week and do get whether it’s a legal assistant, or a law clerk, or one of the associates make sure that they’re being marketed as well. So I think that’s something that managing partners of small law firms have the luxury of doing.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah. I think with any company, everyone can be a salesperson in your company, right?

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Yeah.

Kevin Daisey:

They’re representing your company one way or another, right?.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Yeah, they better remember that on Friday night at the bar.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah, stay focused. No, I love that. So yeah, everyone in your company should be hopefully wanting to bring a new business if they can, not necessarily their primary job, but it’s great when you have such a good culture that people are like, “oh, you need my firm because that’s what we do, we can help you.” So I love that.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

I see that as my job, I see it as my job to bring in the business, to be the rain maker, to make sure I have enough business for all of my lawyers to keep them busy, but anything that they do bring in on their own kudos to them and they’re compensated accordingly.

Kevin Daisey:

Excellent.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

So out in the plaintiffs world that’s the way it works, and that’s the only way they get to be where I am.

Kevin Daisey:

I love it. Well, thanks so much for sharing what you’re up to now and with the necbaby.com, and that case is starting you said in February? It’s the big case you’re working on?

Elizabeth Kaveny:

My first trial is starting on January 5th.

Kevin Daisey:

January 5th? Okay.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

That’s the birth injury CP case. Yeah, so we are in the trenches as they say.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah. Like I mentioned we’re recording this right after Christmas, and new year’s is what? In two days so it gives you some time to sample when we’re recording this. Where most people are at home we’re off and whatever, so we just record and pushing forward.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Yeah. So hopefully 2022 is going to be… I remember saying this last year, hopefully 2021 is going to put an end to 2020, but hopefully 2022 is going to put an end to all of it and we can all move on happily and have a good year.

Kevin Daisey:

Yep. So that’s me and Elizabeth’s prediction right there, we’re going to have a better year and things will turn around and we’re going to move forward either way, right? So as a managing partner, our me owning a firm we have people to take care of and look out for, so we got to move forward the way. Hopefully things will go much better this year and it’ll be in the past, but it’s all we hope for.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Right. Exactly.

Kevin Daisey:

Well, excellent. Thank you so much for sharing your story. Very unique, I think a lot of lessons in there. Even again, when you were young and not even an attorney yet, some of the things you’ve done I think any managing partner can pick up and learn from it. And the way your firm appears, the content, the messaging, the branding, the video aspect, social media anyone listening ask yourself is it appealing to your ideal customer? And does it make them want to take that next step? Whether that’s a phone call, form fill, read an article, whatever take a look at your marketing and see, hey, this is representing-

Elizabeth Kaveny:

I think it’s important to know your audience like you said. I mean, as a plaintiff’s personal injury attorney my clients are very different than Boeing or a Fortune 500 company. I don’t need an office like Lakam and Washington or Kirkland & Ellis, Sidley and Austin, I want an office that… Which was one of the fun things is decorating new space. I want an office that, okay, this is classy, this is rich, I feel comfortable leaving my $10 million case here, but also I feel comfortable. I feel comfortable here, I can sit here and there’s a curing machine here that I can make myself a cup of coffee, and there’s no receptionist nobody’s watching over me. Because for a lot of people it’s the first time ever in a high rise.

Kevin Daisey:

Yeah.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

For my clients, and so I just wanted them to have a good experience. They’ve been the victim of medical negligence, or car accident, or some sort of catastrophic injury and there’s certainly not going to be a victim again in the legal system on my watch.

Kevin Daisey:

I love it. I like it. There’s a lot of good lessons there. Everyone, you should listen to this again. So, well, thank you so much Elizabeth for sharing all this with me today. Be sure to go check out her firm and go to her website, it’s just down below on your screen and its kavenykroll.com for anyone listening. And anything else you want to share before we go?

Elizabeth Kaveny:

No. Kevin, thank you so much. I’m always available, people can contact me by my website, kavenykroll.com, they can call the office, they can email me. I try and do a lot of mentoring, I’m happy to answer questions, I’m happy to co-counsel on cases. And one thing I always tell clients is you’ll get the cold hard truth for me, you either have a case or you don’t, and I’m going to just call a spade a spade. So anything anybody needs that’s listening to this feel free to give me a call.

Kevin Daisey:

Love it. Well, thank you for offering that and yeah, please connect everyone. And that’s what we want people to do here is connect, reach out, help each other, grow each other.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Yeah.

Kevin Daisey:

And so this will be up soon or available always up on our website. So arraylaw.com/podcast. You can search or sort by practice area, or you can search by location city, state. So we’ve had, I don’t know, at this point 160 plus managing partners, so there’s lots of great content there, but this episode will be up there as well so you’ll have this to share. And we’ll also be featuring this in our Managing Partner’s Newsletter which goes out once a week. In there we give marketing tips, we share episodes that are coming up, and we also have the book club. Where managing partners that have been on, written their own books, we’ve had quite a few have written, mostly their books or are helping managing partners run their firm in different aspects.

Kevin Daisey:

So we also share that in there so books that we feature as well as again, marketing and other things like that, that we recommend, Google updates, stuff like that, that might be helpful to you. So get that in your inbox. If you want that, you can reach out to us if not go to arraylaw.com and you can sign up for that and that’s it. If you need any help marketing or doing anything close to what Elizabeth’s doing here, reach out to us at arraylaw.com, we exclusively work with attorneys. We take on two per month and that’s it, we try to control our intake process and our onboarding process to make the best experience possible. But if you need any help, if you just have questions just starting out I’m happy to help you, refer you, tell you what you could do on the cheap versus what we recommend if you have the budget for it. So that’s it Elizabeth, anything else?

Elizabeth Kaveny:

No, Kevin you’re doing a great job, Array Digital’s doing a great job and you’re doing a great job marketing yourselves and helping other lawyers. I think getting managing partners together and us sharing advice and tips is really helpful. And you’re doing a great service for us so thank you very much.

Kevin Daisey:

Well, I appreciate that, I really do, and I appreciate you sharing everything today and learning more about your firm, but yeah, I’ll wish you all this success in 2022. Everyone happy new year and hopefully we can have a good year. Everyone get out there and crush it.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Bring it.

Kevin Daisey:

Bring it. Let’s go! All right, Elizabeth stay backstage with me. Everyone else, thank you so much for turning in and we will talk to you soon.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

All right.

Kevin Daisey:

Bye.

Elizabeth Kaveny:

Happy new year. Bye.

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