THE

Managing
Partners
podcast

Episode # 149
Interview on 12.17.2021

Hosted By
Kevin Daisey

Featuring Attorney

Stephanie Randall



Managing Partner of
Burnham Law

About Stephanie Randall

Stephanie Randall is the Managing Partner at Burnham Law in Colorado.

Stephanie recently earned the distinction of “Rising Star” by Super Lawyers, an award that fewer than 2.5% of attorneys receive. She attended Washburn University School of Law after obtaining a paralegal degree and working for four years as a family law and personal injury litigation paralegal. She also served as an editor for the American Bar Association’s Family Law Quarterly, the most cited family law publication in the United States, and co-chaired the Children and Family Law Center.

She serves on the board of the Meador’s Masters Foundation, raising funds to aid victims of natural disasters and serve others in need in the U.S. and abroad. She also serves on the board of directors for The Justice Center, an organization that works to decrease the gap in access to justice and legal services.

Learn from her expertise and what trends are helping grow her firm on this episode of The Managing Partners Podcast!

Watch the Episode

Episode Transcript

Kevin Daisey:
All right, we are recording. What’s up everyone? Welcome to another live recording of The Managing Partners Podcast. I’m Kevin Daisey, I’ll be your host. I’m also the founder of Array Digital, where we exist to help law firms fill their pipeline with use of digital marketing. So got a guest coming in today from Colorado. Springs, Colorado, Stephanie Randall. Nice to meet you, and-

Stephanie Randall:
Hello.

Kevin Daisey:
Thanks for joining me today. So what I like to always do, we like to keep these conversational, have a little fun, and I like to have the conversation go where it needs to go. So that’s why I’d like to first ask you to just tell us your story, what magical moment? What thing triggered you to get on this path to become an attorney? And of course, you’ve had a lot of success in your career. So take us through that journey of how you got to where you are today as well.

Stephanie Randall:
Right. So we don’t want to start at childhood, probably. We don’t have that long.

Kevin Daisey:
Which kindergarten class did you go to?

Stephanie Randall:
So I actually am a vocal music performance undergrad. So I had an arts background, which is different, I think than most attorneys. And while I was in college, I started feeling around for something else I might want to do to make a living. And I ended up just accidentally taking a business law class, and I had a really great professor and Mark Peacock is his name. And ironically, he has moved from Tennessee where I met him to Pueblo Colorado, and he’s a professor in Southern Colorado. And I like to think that’s because I have so much draw obviously, very compelling. But anyway, so I took a class from him and I just loved it. I loved everything about it. And of course, when I was a kid, I was a middle child then my parents always said I was very argumentative, that’s what they say and that I was going to be a lawyer and we always just laughed it off, but I did in fact love it.

Stephanie Randall:
And so when I graduated from college, I went to school to be a paralegal, and this was before the real estate and market and recession bubble in 2008, 2009. So at that time if you went to work at a law firm and you did a really good job, they could potentially pay for you to go to law school and that was my goal. And then of course the recession hit and lawyers were having trouble even getting jobs. So I decided to go to school at night while I was working to become a paralegal, because I was hoping that I could at least get my foot in the door.

Stephanie Randall:
And then I met a really incredible attorney in Alabama, his name is Bob Brian and he owns a firm there, he’s an excellent lawyer and he was breaking off from a firm there in Walker County and he asked me to come be his paralegal. And at first it was just me and him, and he handled all kinds of cases and I learned a ton from him, he’s just an incredible, incredible trial attorney. And I got bit by the bug for family law at that time, just based on some cases that he had. And I don’t know that he had any passion about family law, it was just a bread and butter thing he was doing. And then at some point after I’d worked for him for a few years, I asked him, “Hey, I’m thinking about going to law school.” And he said, “You know what? I think you’d be good at it.” So I sat for the [inaudible 00:03:39] and put my house up for sale and packed everything up into a moving van and drove to Kansas to go to law school.

Stephanie Randall:
And then what was beneficial about that was obviously I knew what kind of law I went into. So I specialized in family law during law school. And then when I graduated, I knew I was coming out to Colorado, which is a great place to practice family law. And I settled here in the area, passed the bar and got sworn in. And about a year into my practice, I met Todd Burnham and he asked me to come work for him, I was opposing counsel on a case. And I went to work for him and at the time the firm was really just starting out and getting beat under it. And it’s grown and it’s had a huge evolution since then, but the firm itself is about 10 years old and it started out as a bankruptcy firm. And then, and of course that was from the recession, which was the only way you could make the living at that time.

Stephanie Randall:
Because no one could afford to get divorced. But I think at some point he thought, “Hey, I should be a family law attorney, that seems like a way to make money.” And he bought a family law book and decided he was going to like teach himself, and he’s not all that great at it. There’s certain things he was really good at, but that wasn’t one of them and-

Kevin Daisey:
He found you.

Stephanie Randall:
He did find me, that’s one of his talent acquisition. So anyway, and he’s had a lot of growth that’s led the firm to where it is, but we’ve grown exponentially. And I still love family law, but our firm itself has several divisions. We have personal injury and we have a civil and appellate division. We have bankruptcy and probate, and we have a criminal defense division and the largest portion of our firm still is domestic relations, but it’s been quite a journey and it’s caused a lot of personal growth for me and certainly a lot of growth in the people that are around me, including Todd.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. That’s awesome. So yeah, took a look at your website, which by the way, everyone listening it’s down the bottom of your screen, if you’re watching and if you’re listening, it’s burnhamlaw.com. So, that’s B-U-R-N-H-A-Mlaw.com. Check it out. Really cool site, very unique. Yeah, just looking at your team page, it seems you guys have definitely had a lot of growth and have a fairly large team. So tell us about some of the offices locations and then how many attorneys and staff you have.

Stephanie Randall:
Sure. So if you want to know more in depth about our story, probably the best place to hear about that is on Todd’s podcast, which is Deep Bench With Todd Burnham. But we have offices in Fort Collins, Boulder. We have an office in Denver, Cherry Creek, and then we have two offices in the Denver Tech Center, Greenwood Village. And then we have our Colorado Springs location and we’ve set our sites on getting into Southern Wyoming next and potentially Texas. So those are our next stopping places, but we have about 20 attorneys. There’s my light, that was going to flick off. We’re very-

Kevin Daisey:
You caught it. There you go. It really weren’t that big a difference.

Stephanie Randall:
Yeah. So we’re moving in that direction, but we have about 20 attorneys and we have about 75 employees and it’s quite the machine between all of our divisions, and the divisions themselves are pretty self sufficient and they have their own management and teams and we have incredible and very talented people that are really hard working and passionate about what they do here at the firm.

Kevin Daisey:
That’s excellent. And you’re the glue, right? That holds it all together.

Stephanie Randall:
No, I’m the… That would be very self important of myself, but we… It takes all of us to hold it all together, and I think it’s a United purpose and a United passion and belief in one another. And I know this sounds like super cheesy, but we have a lot of mutual respect for one another and we also have our friendships, and a lot of the structure of the firm has been built over time on our blood, sweat and tears, so that shared experience it’s built quite a friendship and relationship and-

Kevin Daisey:

Great culture, I assume.

Stephanie Randall:
Yes. We have a fantastic culture. I’m really proud of that in particular. I can’t say that that’s always what it was. In fact, we had a pretty toxic culture when the firm was first growing and that’s just changed a lot, and we have a big emphasis on mentorship and teaching. We consider our ourselves to be a teaching hospital and that people are in apprenticeships and the old way of how attorneys were taught. I think, at some point there was a shift to sink or swim and just amongst attorneys, just because nobody had time to teach. And so people breaks down their mental health and your license is at risk and it’s just a lot of negative stuff. So myself and some of the others got together and said, “Well, what is the experience that we wish that we had had when we were learning? And let’s create that for other people.”

Stephanie Randall:
And so that’s what we do. And I’m incredibly proud of it. And it’s a safe environment for people to learn and it’s a safe environment for people to teach. And it’s not one of those things where you can’t admit that you don’t know something, if you’ve been practicing for a few years and you think, “Well, I can’t ask this questions because I should already know the answer,” but maybe you just didn’t run into a case that had it, or maybe you knew it at some point, but you don’t know anymore that it’s definitely a safe place.

Stephanie Randall:
And we do a lot of self-teaching and we hold a lot of classes for lunch and learns and that kind of thing. So we invest a lot of time in not only teaching people the law, but in improving people themselves. So we have a big emphasis on healthy work life balance and attending to your mental health. And our culture too, if someone’s having a hard time or they need some time off and they say, “Hey, I want to be able to do X,” they don’t have to give an explanation about it. It’s just, “Hey, sounds good. Your family needs you, we get it.” And I think that’s a good place to be and I think it’s how it should be everywhere.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah, no, I love that. And it takes all those things that you’re taught about. You can’t just have a process and be like, “All right, everyone, here you go do this.” And change too. My firm we’ve changed a lot over the years and we’ll probably have a lot more change and it can be tough on people too, and you got to figure out where you want to go and it takes some time to get there. So, really cool what you guys have done with that. And, yeah. So you’re on this podcast listening, Todd, the founder has his own podcast, which I haven’t got really to take time to listen to a whole episode, but it sounds really well produced and it’s conversational style like this, it’s something I would definitely check out. And I think that’s linked off your website, which is where I found it. So if you visit that you can find it, I believe somewhere on the site, but as… is it Deep Bench With Todd Burnham?

Stephanie Randall:
Deep Bench With Todd Burnham, he also has a book coming out that’s about comebacks. And he spoke recently at a Mensa Conference in Texas talking about comeback strategies. And it’s not just for attorneys, it’s talking to people that have even significant physical events like medical events or addiction, or emotional issues, business owners, people who have ended up in financial straits and that kind of thing. And how you can get your mind right to turn things around and what it takes to succeed. And it’s really… It’s from his own learning experience. He’s not a certified life coach or anything like that, he’s been through the ringer himself and I saw it. I guess I had the benefit of seeing a lot of it from the sidelines.

Stephanie Randall:
And I know what it looked like. It looked like he had gone insane probably because he was on some level, but it took that level of investment and passion, and dreaming and pushing for that dream. When he could see something that the rest of us couldn’t see, and I think he realized we were a good firm, but we could be great and trying to help us all change our perspective so that we knew what we were all headed towards, and that it was bigger than where we were at that moment. And so we get comfortable with living in the uncomfortable now, and we embrace that because nobody loves change, but the fact is that we should all be changing all the time and we should be pushing each other to change and all in good ways, be a better spouse, be a better person, be environmentally conscious and work towards like greener existence for our earth and in our environment in the future.

Stephanie Randall:
And it’s all a lot, sometimes in… even our physical health. And before I met Todd, I had never even been to a gym really, and after I met him I was meeting with a personal trainer all the time, and really learning about nutrition and just things that you would not associate with work or being an attorney, but even individual therapy and just working on processing trauma, because everybody has trauma or referred trauma or secondary trauma and working on those things, being a better communicator, learning how to be a better leader. And we’re pushing each other on all aspects of being a human being, and it can be a bit overwhelming at times but I think the result is that you get really incredible, extraordinary people out of it. And even if people are with us for a short time, I think we need to make a positive difference in their experience, not just as an attorney.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. That’s excellent. And I would we have done some of the things you mentioned and I think it’s been really cool to do. And we have a fitness channel and we do a lot of this stuff, but what you’re doing sounds really awesome. And I think another thing what it does, it creates a culture too that if someone’s not necessarily a fit, but they still make it in the door somehow, through interview process, it’s clear that they probably aren’t a good fit pretty quickly.

Stephanie Randall:
I don’t know. I wouldn’t call it exclusionary, but I think just being associated with people that have a focus like that, you’ll develop that focus yourself. Like I said, I didn’t have that focus at all, and I wouldn’t have ever believed you if you had said, “Hey, you’re going to miss being at the gym during the pandemic.” I would’ve thought you were a crazy person, but-

Kevin Daisey:
I went more during the pandemic than I did before, I think, but-

Stephanie Randall:
I haven’t really during the pandemic, but I really miss it and get some new inviting again.

Kevin Daisey:
[inaudible 00:15:46]

Stephanie Randall:
It’s been a really cool thing and it just opens up a lot of doors, when you’re operating on a higher level and you’re hitting on all cylinders, because you’re not eating garbage all the time. I’m not saying you can’t go about on some Saturday here and there, but those things they just make a big difference.

Kevin Daisey:
Well, you surround yourself with those types of folks and you all work together, that’s going be a positive change for everybody. So I think it’s great. Now let’s switch topics a little bit. So you got some growth, you’ve been growing pretty rapidly the whole time, had a lot of change and you’ve got some other ideas you already mentioned, some future growth. I guess it doesn’t matter which practice areas, but what has really been effective from a marketing or something that’s unique that you’ve done to get clients in the door. And of course you have multiple locations, so what’s really been effective for you?

Stephanie Randall:
I think one of the most powerful things has been grassroots, just being excellent and clients who return or refer other people. I think we get just over a third of our client volume from that and I think that’s incredible, that also helps with our organic rankings and of course that has to do with content and the website being strong. We do podcasts, we do a lot of informative videos or recordings and I think those are helpful. We try to put a lot of information out there that’s free, but valuable. We have a Facebook page. We have informative brochure. Sometimes we’ll send out information about, here are free or low cost resources in the area. So not driving at necessarily creating clients, but fostering what’s already there. Our personal injury division in particular has been built on personal relationships with professionals in the area.

Stephanie Randall:
And that requires connecting with people and helping them understand that we’re a quality over quantity law firm, and that we’re not looking to drive numbers, we’re looking to drive specific clientele. And so that’s been really powerful. We also have a big part of our practice is pro bono. That was one of the things that I had a focus on, which was especially serving children and families that didn’t have access. So basically they could never afford to hire us, but just equal access to justice. And we have something called the Nancy Burnham Equal Access Project, and it provides entirely pro bono representation usually to victims of domestic violence. So we put a lot out there into our communities and the environment, and I think it comes right back to us. We also put a lot of focus on our website and if you look at it, it looks like a Nike campaign. So it’s very good.

Kevin Daisey:
It’s a nice website. It’s different. It’s modern, it’s-

Stephanie Randall:
Yeah. It doesn’t look like your typical… In Colorado, there’ll be like a wallpaper with the mountains and some deciduous trees or something. And then your typical attorney in front of some law books kind of situation. Yeah. We don’t have any of that [crosstalk 00:19:16] come into our mahogany desk with our letter bound books, that’s not us. We’re a paperless company and we… Our focus is on the people not on ridiculous stereotypes. So it really does… You can go look at our website and we’re very competitive. I think if you ask around people will say, “Oh, they’re litigious or they’re overly aggressive.” And I always consider that to be a compliment because we’re not, we’re strategic. But people who are afraid to go to court or who don’t want to face us down in court, that’s the first thing that they’ll say is, “Well, they’re litigious.” Well, I don’t know. Welcome to talking to trial lawyers.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. No, I think what you guys have in the brand and the approach and stuff is great. It’s nice to see something different like that. And yeah, there’s just so… I talked to a lot of lawyers and manage partners. We do just marketing for attorneys, so we have clients as well. But yeah, I can’t count how many bad sites I see in a day that are just… They’re not just websites, that’s just one piece, but that’s an extension of your brand of your firm. So yeah, I think you guys have done a great job there. I assume you do a lot more in like SEO and other digital aspects as well.

Stephanie Randall:
Yep. What we’ve found as we’ve honed our craft, that we have to do less paid advertising and we’re able to hone that in. Yeah.

Kevin Daisey:
She’s saving the planet people, one light at a time.

Stephanie Randall:
This is how I keep from getting blood clots during the days, I have to shift from working at my computer. But anyway, I think that as we’ve gotten better at just honing our practice and making sure that we serve people well, that we have to do less and less paid advertising. And I think that our return clientele is responsible for a little over a third percent or a third. And then I think around 15 or 20% is organic SEO, which is fantastic. And then the rest of it it’s other referral sources or are paid advertising. So, it did not used to be that way. It used to be… We were paying to get all of those leads and, we were having to work on pairing that down, so it wasn’t quite so expensive.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. No, well take it from me, it’s… We think the same way. So for us, it’s obviously the firm and the… We can’t really change our clients necessarily on that part of the things like how they operate and what they care about, but the yellow website and organic we’re heavy on that. And we believe in that more strongly, we like our clients to advertise only if they feel they need to, after those other things are completely dialed in. But, or maybe if you have to advertise, say a new firm and you have to get something going get the phone ringing, but you need to be investing in those other things immediately. And so you don’t have to rely on those advertising methods and like you said, you can just keep spending and spending and spending, and if you stop the leads stop immediately. I think the quality leads are definitely lower too. We see that propability.

Stephanie Randall:
I think once we did some learning about understanding what keywords generated a particular clientele that helped us to understand more what we needed to hone in on as well. Yeah. I think we do some radio, but only if we have specific things that we’re looking for, just because I don’t know that really that’s great marketing anymore for most areas of law, but unless you want to be a personal injury glut, if you’re looking for just thousands of small cases where you see those big billboards and that kind of thing.

Kevin Daisey:
Well, for me traditional, I call it traditional. As you go to our website, we have a great traditional versus digital articles out there for law, for lawyers. But so some firms if you just want to dominate your market and just be everywhere and you TV and radio and all that stuff. And so that’s more like you want people to remember you when something happens and that takes years and years and years to really develop, and you have to spend a lot of money. Versus if you’re number one on Google for organic and your three pack and the maps, you can get those searches and when people are looking, they don’t remember your name, I guess, they go Google and find it, so.

Stephanie Randall:
Yep. And that’s what we’ve been heading for. And we have definitely been able to arrive at that and as you’re well aware, it’s a multi aspect thing, it’s not just you’re doing one thing right, and…

Kevin Daisey:
All of that you said the videos. So videos, that’s all part of organic, that’s answering people’s questions with an article and a video and whatever, right? So there’s a great book out there. They ask you to answer, so it’s all the questions your clients might have, do a video about each one of those questions and answer it and then put it on Google My Business, write an article. So, sometimes it’s just… but it’s different approaches and different areas that you can put that content, the podcast… There’s actually… we had a guest on a few months ago, they’re divorce attorney in Colorado outside like Aspen area. They only do really high end, high net worth. They have a podcast about divorce and they just talk about divorce on the podcast and they get a ton of clients from it.

Stephanie Randall:
Yeah. Yeah. And I don’t… Our podcast is more [crosstalk 00:25:23] individual development versus being a lawyer. And we have another podcast that’s going to be starting soon that has more to do with that. And we’ll probably have a lot of different guests on and that kind of thing. But I think it’s more to tell Todd’s story and to inspire people or encourage people to make the changes that it takes to hit those pinnacles you’re looking for in your life. And that’s scary and hard to do, but that’s every day here.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. Well, no, I think definitely if you’re listening, check out the podcast, because you’re going to hear from an attorney who owns his own firm. Who’s been able to do amazing things and as you know, still trying to do even more amazing things and some of you listening right now, there’s a lifestyle business too. I’m actually talking to a gentleman today, who owns a firm in Virginia and he even used that term, I’m a lifestyle business. I do this for a lifestyle. I’m not looking to just blow up overnight and grow. So, and that’s totally cool too. So I think teach their own and, but I think Todd’s probably can share a lot of good stuff on his podcast, so would be helpful to a lot of folks.

Kevin Daisey:
Even if you’re looking for a lifestyle, you still have some employees and a team, your culture, you want to take care of them. So I think there’s a lot you can learn from that and listening to what Stephanie has to share today. So you give me a little hint, last question before we wrap up, what does the plans look like for the next year, to five years from a growth perspective? You mentioned a couple states that you’re looking to get into.

Stephanie Randall:
Yeah. So I guess I don’t want to be political or controversial, but we were seriously looking at Texas, but we haven’t been real thrilled about some of the recent legislative decisions that have come out of Texas and it’s making hesitate heading there, and I don’t know if the… It’s always a pendulum and it swing all the way to one direction and then it corrects itself, it swings all the way to the other direction. So maybe it’s just in one of those moments, but Southern Wyoming is very near our Fort Collins’s office and so an easy reach for us. So we’ve been looking at that. We could do the same thing in Southern Colorado, because we have a four corners area down there at the corner of the state, but we have some attorneys sitting for the Hawaii bar and we have some California licensees and a couple more sitting for the California bar.

Stephanie Randall:
So that may be where we head next instead of access. But as far as growth in the next couple of years, our growth has been so exponential, especially even during the pandemic. I think we’ve grown 40% in the last two years and that’s despite already having really rapid growth over the span of the firm. But what our growth is in right now is in development of leadership, our individual leaders and developing their strengths and working on them with weaknesses, helping their individual teams what we call like micro teams to function really well. We’re looking at continuance of not only quality control in how we handle cases, but in being able to perpetuate the way that we mentor, and the culture of the firm to make sure that in our growth we don’t lose those aspects because we consider those to be the most important things that we have.

Stephanie Randall:
And of course as you have different personalities in the mix, people have different ideas about how things should be done, and not that people can’t be individual in how they lead, but we have to make sure we don’t lose what we’ve worked so hard to build. And we honestly… our case pipeline coming in is so large that it’s a constant, bringing people in to train them to be excellent, to then have them manage cases. And then if they’re interested in mentorship and teaching themselves, then teaching them to be leaders and handing some reigns over to them a little bit at a time, just so that… again, so that that is perpetuated in our growth. And that is our challenge right now, and that’s what I’m constantly thinking about every day and working with each of my leaders to meet their needs and to foster their growth and to have really transparent and hard conversations with people when expectations aren’t being met but in an inspirational way, and not in a way that’s degrading or demeaning because that’s not what we’re looking for.

Stephanie Randall:
We’re looking truly for people to grow in their positions. And I think we’re lucky because the people that we have here, that’s their common interest too. And as long as we have these common interests aligned, it works. And we’re really careful about what we call Mr. Green coming into the room and because when money shows up, that’s when everything changes, right? So in the firm, our philosophy is that if you make money for the firm, then you make money. And in leadership it’s, if your team is functioning well, then you’re making money. And we don’t… There’s not favoritism where it’s like, “Well, this person has been here longer. So they get a piece of a pie without it being something that they earn.” That’s not how it functions here.

Stephanie Randall:
It’s like a machine, right? And we have these three expectations of the function of that person’s machine. And what looks like winning is those functions working on all three of those-

Kevin Daisey:
Not something you did prior or years ago.

Stephanie Randall:
Exactly, or is your machine winning? Basically. And if it is, then that’s fantastic and that’s going to be rewarded. And if it’s not, how do we get it there? Right? And that really is that’s every day from me is just thinking about what our growth looks like, what it takes to sustain what we’ve already built and how to meet people’s individual needs. So, I care very much about work within our organization, how people are doing on a personal level and just trying to understand where people are at, and what do they need for their machine to function properly.

Stephanie Randall:
And again, it may sound very cheesy, but we found that when you focus on that individual person’s needs and trying to get to a yes if they’re like, “Hey, I really need X. Well, I’m going to do my best to try to say yes to it,” even if it’s a compromise or trying to figure out how to make different pieces fit a certain way, just because that’s what I think leads to someone staying with an organization longer is not these arbitrary old fashioned workplace ideas where you’re like, “Well, you have to fit into the cog as it is.” Right? That’s a very old way of thinking and frankly, I don’t think it’s going to work for generation Z, who is entering our workplace right now.

Stephanie Randall:
They have a very different set and needs and for a long time, all that people have been talking about millennials and how they-

Kevin Daisey:
Oh, millennial.

Stephanie Randall:
I am also a millennial.

Kevin Daisey:
Fairly, but yes.

Stephanie Randall:
So I think that’s been the conversation for so long and it’s shifting rapidly and if you’ve been working with any generation Z employees you’ve already noticed it, I guarantee.

Kevin Daisey:
I got a couple, I think. So I like what millennials have accomplished here, me and Stephanie here on a show.

Stephanie Randall:
Yeah, totally. No, I’ve always… I’m sure every millennial there is annoyed at the bad rap that we’ve gotten. And there’s nothing that get to me annoyed more than hearing someone say something like, “Well, when I took out a loan, I was expected to pay it back,” and I’m like, “Yeah, joker, but you weren’t paying compounding interest that was set by the federal government, that’s impossible to repay. It’s not that I don’t want to pay my student loans. I just want a functional ability to do it while I have a house.” And I’m in that little tiny bi-section of the xaniole, there’s a four or five year segment of us that’s a little bit different.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. I was born in 82, so.

Stephanie Randall:
Yeah, you’re too. You’re a xaniole as well. But-

Kevin Daisey:
I didn’t realize I was a millennial, actually, this right here. I got an award, millennial on the move award for my whole region or city or whatever. And I was like, “What? I’m not a millennial. This is crazy.” I was upset by it almost and then I realized, “Oh, okay. I guess I am technically,” but so then I had to write a whole thing about why I love my duration. [crosstalk 00:34:39] That was funny.

Stephanie Randall:
Well, the thing that’s been ironic to me, and I’m sure it’s happened to you is for the last few years, every time a younger person is in the workplace and causing problems, they’re like, “Oh, they’re a millennial.” And I’m like, “No, they’re not. They’re too young to be a millennial, they’re generation Z.” And-

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah, I feel like we’re getting stuck with them too, we’re-

Stephanie Randall:
[crosstalk 00:35:01] okay, but that’s not up.

Kevin Daisy:
I’ll take a cheeseburger. That’s funny. Well, I love what you said too. I think anyone listening, that’s growing a bigger firm and had quite a few large firms on this podcast. Maintaining that culture, I think is definitely something that I’m… Me and my business partner we’re trying to do as well, and we have 22 or so. So we’re not quite the size you are, but that’s difficult to build teams and have managers, and making sure that they’re going to pass these things down.

Kevin Daisy:
And so, yeah. What was helped us, I think we do one-on-ones with our staff every week, individually one-on-one and that’s more personal conversation, it’s not nothing to do about work, although the employee tends to bring work back into the conversation but, because that’s all we do, but we try to be like, “Is there anything personal going on? Is there anything we can help you with outside of work? Or do you need any time off?” Or whatever, but so we try to keep chests like that. But yeah, I think at your size, that’ll be challenging to maintain that culture. I’m sure you can do it.

Stephanie Randall:
That’s only our challenge, but we’re dedicating a lot of time and energy to it and I have confidence that we’ll be able to. And if for some reason I think that we can’t, I think we’ll probably stay the same size that we are because we don’t want to risk losing what we’ve built, just… like I said, just to be large but I have a lot of confidence in the people that we have here and there are individual growth just because when you have shared goals, it’s easy to build something.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. I love everything you had to share. Well, I appreciate your time today. Everyone listening, I think you learned a lot from what Stephanie had to share and what her… I guess the owner or the founder, Todd has been able to do in his podcast. And it sounds like you guys have another podcast coming out, but I would say go take a look at their website, burnhamlaw.com, totally different look and feel, different approach. There’s a tons of video and content and I would just take a look what they’re doing, it’s pretty amazing. If that’s the way you want to go, I think if you’re not trying to be this big huge firm, it doesn’t matter. I think what they’ve done would apply to anybody to have a firm, even if you want to just maintain a good book of clients, your appearance, organic versus paying for ads all the time can be a huge benefit to you. So yeah. Take a look at what they’ve done and I think you can learn a lot. So, Stephanie thanks for sharing today. Anything else you want to add before we go?

Stephanie Randall:
No, just don’t eat a ton of horrible food for you this November and December.

Kevin Daisey:
Oh, man.

Stephanie Randall:
Yeah. You got to keep it tight.

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. The holidays are coming up quick. It’s actually… I’m in Virginia Beach. Virginia, it was like 80 yesterday and today it’s like 50, so-

Stephanie Randall:
Are you going to be joining your kids Halloween bucket soon?

Kevin Daisey:
Yeah. Well, now you just told me not to, so. Yeah. Halloween’s I think what’s… Not this Sunday, the next Sunday. My daughter’s… her birth, she turns to eight the day we… on Saturday on the 30th, and then we’re flying to Palm Beach. So I better not eat too much candy.

Stephanie Randall:
Yeah. You’ll be in candy glut, but…

Kevin Daisey:
Well, thanks so much for sharing everything. I love what you had to share and what you guys are up to, a lot of crazy growth. So good luck with that. And everyone else, this episode will be up on the podcast soon, if you’re already listening to it now, obviously it’s already there, but if you want to check this out anytime, the video version will be up on our website here in the next couple days, you go to raylaw.com/podcast. And then if you need any help doing what they have done with Burnham, like nice website, all the organic content, that’s what we do. So if you need help in that area, please reach out, go to raylaw.com, reach out to me or someone on my team, we’re happy to help. And if not, connect with Stephanie, I’m sure she can pass on a lot of tips to you. Stephanie, is there another way that people can connect with you directly if they wanted to, other than the website?

Stephanie Randall:
My email is stephanie@burnhamlaw.com. It’s S-T-E-P-H-A-N-I-E@burnhamlaw.com.

Kevin Daisey:
Excellent. All right, well that wraps up another episode, everyone. Thanks so much for tuning in. Stephanie, we’ll chat here in a minute after we stop recording.

Stephanie Randall:
All right-

Kevin Daisey:
Everyone else have a great day.

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